Curse

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

Anet has dropped the ball many times over the years. I personally believe they should charge us a fee to play and add more content into the game. I would not only pay to play, I would stay for the long haul. I lose my interest quickly in GW because once you do everything, there is little else to do.

Then like Bryant, you would have much prefered all the Content in GW to have been more difficult to reach, and taken far more time via time-sinks? I'd bet you're in a very small minority. WoW is the perfect game for you, and Bryant.

Avarre · Jun 05, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Then like Bryant, you would have much prefered all the Content in GW to have been more difficult to reach, and taken far more time via time-sinks? I'd bet you're in a very small minority. WoW is the perfect game for you, and Bryant.

When your game has no repetitive grind to keep people playing, the only possibly method for making your game something people wont uninstall within a week is either creating enough content for them to explore, or to give it enough replay value with no artificial reward.

GW lacks content. It lacks it so badly. If it wants to have a PvE game that's comparable in quality to other games on the market, it needs to vastly expand in that area.

around · Jun 05, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

But GW HAS got content. It has one of the best developed PvP modes of any MMO out there. Why ANet is neglecting it is beyond me.

I mean, after the GWFC, I had barely started GvG'ing (I may have been running some crap like FoC spike), yet there was enough publicity to really get people playing the game. Sure, there was all sorts of crap, like Rit Lords and instagib assassins, but they could have used the GWFC as a springboard for greatness, and to reach out to everyone who was vaguely interested in balanced PvP on an MMO.

2 years later: what do we have instead?

Stockholm · Jun 05, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

Anet has dropped the ball many times over the years. I personally believe they should charge us a fee to play and add more content into the game. I would not only pay to play, I would stay for the long haul. I lose my interest quickly in GW because once you do everything, there is little else to do.

And you think A-Net can support GW on monthly fees from you and Bryant?
One of the big draws of GW is the NO MONTHLY FEES.

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

When your game has no repetitive grind to keep people playing, the only possibly method for making your game something people wont uninstall within a week is either creating enough content for them to explore, or to give it enough replay value with no artificial reward.

GW lacks content. It lacks it so badly. If it wants to have a PvE game that's comparable in quality to other games on the market, it needs to vastly expand in that area.

A single character likely has about 1500 hours of gameplay. If you play all chapters, quests, minigames, HM stuff. . . a few titles maybe. .

Yeah, you maybe could fit that all into a week. But then you'd be better off doing so as a WoW player. WoW caters to that sort of thing.

zwei2stein · Jun 05, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

When your game has no repetitive grind to keep people playing, the only possibly method for making your game something people wont uninstall within a week is either creating enough content for them to explore, or to give it enough replay value with no artificial reward.

GW lacks content. It lacks it so badly. If it wants to have a PvE game that's comparable in quality to other games on the market, it needs to vastly expand in that area.

It does not lack content. It lacks incentive to go though content.

Theoretically all L20 areas should have content relevant to maxxed character, content that never gets obsolete. Practically, whatever you can get by doing it you get much easier and faster by solo farming. What you get is partially true illusion of no content.

Avarre · Jun 05, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

But GW HAS got content. It has one of the best developed PvP modes of any MMO out there. Why ANet is neglecting it is beyond me.

Discussing PvE content, since that's obviously what ANet is focusing on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

A single character likely has about 1500 hours of gameplay. If you play all chapters, quests, minigames, HM stuff. . . a few titles maybe. .

Yeah, you maybe could fit that all into a week. But then you'd be better off doing so as a WoW player. WoW caters to that sort of thing.

You can go through every quest, mission, and area in short order. Titles are artificially lengthening gameplay by providing a goal to grind for.

If I look at my own PvE play structure after say, Factions, the first week involves exploring the new areas and missions and then the rest of the time between chapters is... just replaying stuff, because there's nothing else to do. This isn't going to be the case for everyone, but it shouldn't be the case for anyone.

You're right about one thing. WoW caters to replaying content much more, by providing benefits as incentives. Finishing the ridiculously short GW PvE campaign leaves you with the option of replaying the content endlessly for vanity goals. Adding a title that makes players go through every area again is not increasing content. PvE is pretty much completely static - PvP can get away with having less content because it's more dynamic in nature. GW PvE does not have that luxury, and if you aren't interested in repetitive grind the game has quite little allure as a pure PvE game.

This would only be a problem if the game was a pure PvE game in the first place, but ANet has been increasing the barriers to enter PvP while the playerbase dwindles. If ANet wants to keep going the PvE route, that's fine, but they have to do something besides 'add grind title' to keep their game interesting.

DarkNecrid · Jun 05, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Also WoW doesn't actually have anything close to replaying content on the scale that GW does. Yeah you probably do the same stuff (like a quest to kill X enemies, only with different enemies) but the lore behind it, the area, the enemy, it's all different.

And there's no real reason to replay anything in WoW except raids for items, and the raids are probably 219038129038190238% harder than anything in GW PvE, that's for sure. (http://files.filefront.com/SK+Gaming.../fileinfo.html

Heres a raid vid in WoW (you can stream it))

The reason WoW doesn't have replayable content on the scale of GW is because lol they actually add new content.

It's actually kind of questionable which 1 in the long run has more grind, WoW or GW at this point. Sure, one is optional and one kinda isn't, but it's designed in such a way you will want to do it in GW thanks to certain title effects, and GW2 bonuses.

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can go through every quest, mission, and area in short order.

Really? And how many hours has your main character logged, having completed all the content GW has to offer? Hmm?

Sure you can complete all the missions in a week or so, but you are obviously ignoring a thousand quests, HM features, mini games, PvP, Elite areas, . . . and whatever else you choose to ignore. (such as the fact that most gamers aren't as Uber as you)

Short Order = 1000s hours. Yep, Evercrack was definitely tailored just for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

WoW caters to replaying content much more, by providing benefits as incentives. .

Benefits to farming the same instance a dozen times? What are those benefits? Uber stat gear? Cool Beans? GW players are really impressed, and will likely leave GW in droves for a taste of that. With Uber stats, WoW definitely delivers. Or is it, WoW players are blinded by delusions of Uberness. Oh, but in WoW you get to just replay stuff over and over, that's almost as good as,.. . . did you mean WoW or GW, now I'm confused.

WoW's system of hooking it's players is very effective, so much so that you're now in their clutches. If you haven't noticed, you have an Evercrack Gorilla on your back.

Avarre · Jun 05, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Really? And how many hours has you main character logged, having completed all the content GW has to offer? Hmm?

Sure you can complete all the missions in a week or so, but you are obviouly ignoring a thousand quests, HM features, mini games, PvP, Elite areas, . . . and whatever else you choose to ingore.

Short Order = 1000s hours. Yep, Evercrack was definitely tailored just for you. Benefits to farming the same instance a dozen times? What are those benefits? Uber stat gear? Cool Beans? GW players are really impressed, and will likely leave GW in droves for a taste of that. With Uber stats, WoW definitely delivers. Or is it, WoW players are blinded by delusions of Uberness. Oh, but in WoW you get to just replay stuff over and over, that's almost as good as,.. . . did you mean WoW or GW, now I'm confused.

WoW's system of hooking it's players is very effective, so much so that you're now in their clutches. If you haven't noticed, you have an Evercrack Gorilla on your back.

Do you actually read the posts you reply to, or were you too busy high-fiving yourself at your attempts to be witty?

DarkNecrid · Jun 05, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Sure you can complete all the missions in a week or so, but you are obviouly ignoring a thousand quests, HM features, mini games, PvP, Elite areas, . . . and whatever else you choose to ingore.

Short Order = 1000s hours. Yep, Evercrack was definitely tailored just for you. Benefits to farming the same instance a dozen times? What are those benefits? Uber stat gear? Cool Beans? GW players are really impressed, and will likely leave GW in droves for a taste of that. With Uber stats, WoW definitely delivers. Or is it, WoW players are blinded by delusions of Uberness. Oh, but in WoW you get to just replay stuff over and over, that's almost as good as,.. . . did you mean WoW or GW, now I'm confused.

WoW's system of hooking it's players is very effective, so much so that you're now in their clutches. If you haven't noticed, you have an Evercrack Gorilla on your back.

I like how you're a complete buffoon who missed his point entirely. First off, HM isn't even content. It's recycled trash with bigger numbers. Woooo. It's artificial content, which isn't content at all. Elite Areas are farmed for uber gear and money...the mini games take like, what, 2 hours? I beat boxing, the norn tournament, and polymock in 2 hours. Woo.

I've done every Elite Mission too. Yay. I'm not going to replay them either, because there's no incentive to, for me.

I've almost got Legendary Vanquisher, and it's the most boring thing ever. Yaaay I get to replay an area and instead of killing 20 bandits in WoW, I get to kill 200+ enemies for a crap XP/Gold reward. Yaaaaay. I'm only doing it for GWAMM because a) i want everything for gw2 (this is the LAMEST REASON to grind ever, but I play WoW (which btw, if you think WoW is bad grind...[email protected]) too so I dont care) and b) I can't let Divine outdo me!.

I dare you to ask Divine what he thinks about PvE and if he agrees with Avarre or not. He has rank 6 in Kind of a Big Deal, and has done everything PvE has to offer. Yet, I would bet you 10,000,000,000$, my house and everything in it, a car, my soul, and hell, I'll even cut off my private organ too, that he'd agree with Avarre. Because Avarre is right.

I just wonder if it's a question of oh no Evercrack has us in our grasp (note: Divine doesn't play WoW) or if you're just too blind to notice the lack of content.

:hm:

EDIT: Also not many people actually replay the same instances over and over unless they are a hardcore guild, which isn't any different from a hardcore PvEr on GW replaying FoW/UW 9000 times.

Except in WoW, you actually have some sort of progression with new content...none of that in GW.

EDIT EDIT:
ps before you say DUDE...WOW TOTALLY HAS YOU TOO or whatever, here's my times:

WoW: (on my 70 (my only character), I'm in T6 (highest tiered PvE armor right now) and am on my way to getting full s2 (2nd tier PvP armor) on my character) ~40 days of in-game time. (I'd have to sign on to check, but it's ~40. Somewhere between 40-60.)

Guild Wars: 3,587 hours played. (149 days, across all characters)

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I like how you're a complete buffoon who missed his point entirely. )

So you've obviouly done all the GW content in Short Order as well. Let me guess, Short Order for you is something like 3500 hours, Correct? More you say? (edit: Oh, wow nice guess)

And so you're bored with GW. But WoW still gives you da money, so to speak. Yay uber Stats. and Monthly Fees

There are plenty of GW players who do have the incentive to play GW, myself included.

Crying rivers that GW is somehow not as good as WoW, "so will you please change it to be more like WoW" will get you only one thing.

Me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Do you actually read the posts you reply to, or were you too busy high-fiving yourself at your attempts to be witty?

Sorry I missed your jibe. My point was a question(Read closely): how many hours have you LOGGED, and did you enjoy it. What does "Short Order" actually mean?

1000+ hours = Short Order?

My argument, that there is a ton of content for players that choose to play GW. Some likely take a lot longer to get through the content than power gamers such as yourself, and the OP. Some players even need help getting through stuff that we breeze through.

DarkNecrid · Jun 05, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

The thing is, you've already beaten the content, unless you're new (or really really REALLY casual. Assuming you've been here a year, you've had to of beaten all 4 chapters now). HM =/= new content. Titles =/= new content. Anything related to titles =/= new content (no, revisting the Plains of Jarin for the 5th time to cartographer it 100% [b]isn't new content.).

The only "content" the game has is missions, quests, elite missions, and PvP. And Anet is seemingly done adding new content.

I don't see why you're against them adding new content, when it obviously wouldn't do anything except give people new areas to explore, and more things to do.

Eventually, you're going to be where I am, and then you're going to be complaining too.

btw, I'm guessing you're just randomly going to quit at what, 100 hours or something? "Oh I hit 100 hours I'm done now..."

"Sorry guys, I hit 100 hrs I'm quitting the game"

Games are escapisms, and even putting 2 hours into one is technically a waste of life, so don't go thinking you're all high and mighty because you've wasted somewhat less of yours.

EDIT:
also show me where I said WoW was better?

Me thinks at this point you're just a fanboy. WoW and GW have their own pros and cons...which is why I play both.

EDIT EDIT:
lol Avarre, we always seem to wind up in the same topics...and it's always under the same circumstances.

EDIT TO YOUR EDIT EDIT:
right, so I guess they should just never make new content, so whenever people do it all we can all just quit and never buy their products!

Though...I wouldn't call it power gamers...

Ya...I did most of the content in 3 years.

No wai.

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I don't see why you're against them adding new content, when it obviously wouldn't do anything except give people new areas to explore, and more things to do.

Never said that, unfortunately new content is likely only to manifest in the form of GW2.

Also, saying that re-playability is not content would also include the dozens of Raiding runs in WoW for a new Micky Mouse hat of uber stats. Remove that part of WoW and WoW is woefully inadequate (endgame) compared to GW.

Not that I waist time playing games, it's just that to artificially increase the grind and difficulty to keep you in a state of escapism seems rather disingenuous. See WoW for a good example.

Yeah, I'm a huge fanboi of GWs, It's the first MMO to finally get it right. Threads that want GW to become WoW are my pastime.

DarkNecrid · Jun 05, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Also, saying that re-playability is not content would also include the dozens of Raiding runs in WoW for a new Micky Mouse hat of uber stats. Remove that part of WoW and WoW is woefully inadequate (endgame) compared to GW.

except

you aren't forced to replay those instances at all. there is other ways to get gear besides just raiding.

you don't know anything about it, do you? You're just uneducated and think you can spout whatever about it, but know very little. Yes, there are hardcore guilds that replay constantly, but that's probably a little bit more to do with the fact that WoW actually has somewhat challenging PvE mixed with interesting encounters than "let's gear up." Hell, the guild I am (very casual btw, we're a bunch of 19-40+ year olds...more of us in the range of 24-40) in redos the instances simply because of the atmosphere. We don't even use DKP or any similar looting system, simply Need Before Greed, because it isn't about the loot, it's about the lore.

but no i guess you're right and all PvErs in WoW only do it for the EPIC MICKEY MOUSE HATS.

Very few do.

around · Jun 05, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Threads that want GW to become WoW are my pastime.

This thread does not want GW to become WoW. If the level cap in GW got raised, I would get seriously butthurt.

What this thread is asking (if you care to look) is why ANet feel the need to dumb everything down in GW.

pumpkin pie · Jun 05, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

lololololo, please let me say this, and i'll leave....

because all the experience players have left the game or just log on to chat now a days?

Balan Makki · Jun 05, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

This thread does not want GW to become WoW. If the level cap in GW got raised, I would get seriously butthurt.

What this thread is asking (if you care to look) is why ANet feel the need to dumb everything down in GW.

Did look, and saw a thread by Bryant, asking for more grind, more elitism, inaccessiblity, fewer options: In Short, more like WoW. Bryant usually sees everything through WoW colored glasses. The OP was nothing uncommon for Bryant, just more of the same.

I like GWs, using WoW as a watermark is flawed logic when petitioning for changes. Though WoW has done much wonderfully. It has a very Rotten Core.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

(on my 70 (my only character), I'm in T6 (highest tiered PvE armor right now)

you aren't forced to replay those instances at all. there is other ways to get gear besides just raiding.

you don't know anything about it, do you? You're just uneducated and think you can spout whatever about it, but know very little. Yes, there are hardcore guilds that replay constantly, but that's probably a little bit more to do with the fact that WoW actually has somewhat challenging PvE mixed with interesting encounters than "let's gear up." Hell, the guild I am (very casual btw, we're a bunch of 19-40+ year olds...more of us in the range of 24-40) in redos the instances simply because of the atmosphere. We don't even use DKP or any similar looting system, simply Need Before Greed, because it isn't about the loot, it's about the lore.
but no i guess you're right and all PvErs in WoW only do it for the EPIC MICKEY MOUSE HATS.

Very few do.

Sorry, you grammar is a bit misleading. So you would say your tier 6 gear was not got by grinding the same instances, not having to replay content? and that you would rather do a dungeon for Lore sake than for gear? Don't you need to grind your 0-5 tiers or can you just go strait to tier 6. (The way most players will just skip all of that nonsense with the next expansion.)

Getting your tier 6 gear did not require hardcore grinding of dungeons? I've not played WoW for a few months, lots must have changed, guess I don't know anything about WoW. Or the line between Hardcore and Casual has changed lately.

So in summary, you'd like GW to be more about Lore? Not gear? When they do add content?

Bryant Again · Jun 05, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Firstly, thanks for seeing my point, Spawn : ). Sorry that I forgot to mention that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

And when ANet released EToN, they weren't catering to the same audience that they were when they released Factions or Nightfall.

Bryant knows that, he knows why, he just doesn't accept it. Nothing we can say will change it.

I understand them wanting to cater to the "newbie" to be successful, but it's still coming back to my original point.

WoW caters nearly exclusively and largely to people who raid, a portion of the game that can take a very long time with people who lack the experience. When you see people playing WoW, most are not trying or striving to reach the raid content. As mentioned earlier, most people don't even bother with reaching the raids - and they're *still* playing. WoW is being able to keep raids exclusive *while* keeping the majority of people happy.

And now my post got killed, so I'll have to type everything up all over again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Bryant, also keep in mind that you are mixing apples and oranges, Again....

In terms of the game itself? These days I'm not so sure. With GW's current U-turn in terms of game direction, it seems they're catering more and more to the MMO crowd - something I didn't want to happen (see why I don't recommend GW to my WoW friends, and why I don't call it an MMO?)

And I wouldn't see h/h so much a game perk as a necessity, seeing how fractured and divided the GW population is, and that all areas in the game require a party of numerous people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Did look, and saw a thread by Bryant, asking for more grind, more elitism, inaccessiblity, fewer options: In Short, more like WoW. Bryant usually sees everything through WoW colored glasses. The OP was nothing uncommon for Bryant, just more of the same.

Hah, alright, now you're just ignoring what I say.

I have no problem with making content available to everyone, in fact I encourage it, and it was all made widely available even before all of these updates: All players, with a certain amount of moderation and understanding of the areas and themselves, could see any areas of the game on Normal Mode. But it's why they had to make Hard Mode as accessible as Normal Mode that I, for the life of me, do not understand.

Okay, I take that back: I do want Hard Mode to be exclusive - for skilled players. Just like God Mode in God of War, just like the Nightmare difficulty in Doom, just like the 100% difficulty slider in Oblivion, just like the Insanity difficulty in Mass Effect. I want the hardest difficulties reserved for the best players, and with GW this is no longer true. People complained that Hard Mode was too easy, and sadly ANet listened to them. All that you were missing out on in Hard Mode were harder monsters*, why did people want it easier? If they wanted things a bit less difficult, all they had to do was switch over to Normal mode.

All of these additions that make PvE easier is ANet catering to one specific type of player: The "noob". Not the "newb" who is forgiveably and understandbly "bad" at the game, I mean he has only been playing on and off for a couple weeks now. But to the "noob": the immature player, the unconcieving player, the player that doesn't want to have to learn a new strategy to beat such-and-such boss, and who complains endlessly for not being able to use his "tried and true" strategy on such-and-such boss. He's the person who wants instant gratification, who doesn't want to search for other routes, who thinks he shouldn't have to search for other routes because he's already so damn awesome with his high title ranks and elite armor and weapons. It's this specific player that ANet has listened to - not the casual player (they've already listen to the casual player through Normal mode), but to the "whiney" player.

It's this turn of direction that has me upset, and it is overall a very bad one. If all of those other game's had followed a similar route - Doom, God of War, OB, and shit any game with difficulty settings - how silly do you think they'd look?

Regarding Avarre being on the "back of the WoW gorilla": I think he's only played that game for like 2 hours.

*not entirely true, cookies to who can see what I did there.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 05, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

You guys seriously need to take up some PvP gvg if you're so bored with the GW PVE content, you'd still be here a year later getting your ass creamed...Tons of content left.